Excerpts from the interview by President Kassym-Zhomart Tokayev to the Qazaqstan TV channel 17 February 2022

Let’s talk about the "tragic January". The bloody events at the beginning of the year, unfortunately, claimed many human lives. Were all those who came to the rally terrorists? Probably, initially people still went to a peaceful rally?

Of course, it all started with peaceful rallies. In many regions of the country, people took to the squares where they expressed their demands, expressed dissatisfaction, and protested. Indeed, there were no pogroms, nor criminal actions.

But later the situation began to develop in a completely different direction. Provocateurs and real bandits appeared. And their goal was not to participate in peaceful rallies, but to attack the authorities.

In a word, at a certain moment, real terrorists came out onto the squares. The bandits stole thousands of weapons that the police are still looking for. Unfortunately, not all weapons have been found yet. And there is a possibility that those weapons will be used again.

Naturally, many questions arise about who is involved in these events. Those who went to peaceful rallies? In fact, this is the work of professional bandits.

But where did they come from?

I have already answered this question more than once. It was a planned action. At the epicenter of the January events were criminal gangs, terrorists who had received special training and were in charge of bandits and criminals.

Of course, these groups also included civilians. Now our task is to figure out who among them is a criminal and who is not. This is a very difficult job, everything will become clear at the end of the investigation.

And this must be understood correctly. It cannot be said everyone went out for a peaceful rally. This is complete absurdity. No sane person would ever believe this.

The terrorists sought to exacerbate the situation in order to undermine stability in the country and intimidate our people. And ordinary citizens who came to the peaceful rally, unfortunately, "fell for their bait." We must, first of all, protect the rights of such people. I have instructed a thorough review of each case. Those who are guilty of violating the rights of citizens will be held accountable.

What is the correct term for those events then? What were they: an attempted coup, peaceful protests against the authorities, or something else?

I know these events are now being evaluated and termed differently. Be that as it may, these days have become the most tragic in the history of our country. This must be acknowledged. During the 30 years of independence, we have withstood many trials. But this is the first time that we have encountered such cruelty. It is absolutely clear true patriots, devoted to their country and their people, would never do such a thing.

It must be said openly that people who wanted to take advantage of the situation for their own selfish purposes tried to carry out a coup. In French, this is called coup d’état, or coup. These were actions directed against our statehood, the integrity of the country and the security of the people. This is my personal opinion.

Indeed, people still do not understand everything. But it is clear that ordinary citizens who love their hometown will never destroy it with their own hands. The bandits came to Almaty from outside. Their goal was obvious: intimidation and murder of citizens, violence against women, looting, pogroms and, ultimately, the seizure of power.

Why did they go against the authorities then?

The fact is the conspirators wanted to reverse the course of reforms. They opposed the President because the reforms could affect their personal interests.

Meanwhile, the main goal of the reforms is to build a just society, demonopolize, implement political transformation, and accelerate the economic development of the country. This fully meets the aspirations of our citizens. Therefore, we will not turn anywhere and continue with the reforms.

You have spoken about the investigation more than once. Can you tell us about its preliminary results?

There is a massive investigation going on right now. The Prosecutor General’s Office regularly publishes accurate and reliable information. It is premature to draw any conclusions now. This is a very difficult job. Investigations are being conducted behind closed doors, as this is a very responsible matter. The investigation will take some time. I think our citizens will soon definitely receive answers to their questions. All information will be published. We will not hide anything from the people.

So far, I can only say one thing: there was a real threat to the security of our citizens and the integrity of the country.

You have just said about the need to protect the rights of citizens. Let’s dwell on this issue in more detail. I mean the facts of torture. It is impossible to watch the videos without a shudder, to read reports about how, for example, a resident of Taldykorgan, Azamat Batyrbaev, was tortured with an iron. Do you know about it?

Yes, I am well aware of this situation. Some citizens record their video messages addressed to me and publish them on social networks. I also know about this. I gave specific instructions to the Ministry of the Interior and the Prosecutor General’s Office. Such actions are inadmissible.

The public commission has already begun to work. Ombudswoman for Human Rights Elvira Azimova, well-known human rights activists Aiman ​​Umarova, Zhemis Turmagambetova, Abzal Kuspan and other lawyers, having come together, created special commissions.

They scrutinize compliance with the law as they investigate each case. We have no reason or authority not to trust them. The state and law enforcement agencies do not interfere in their activities. I don’t interfere either.

Action will be taken for every violation. In the end, all those responsible will be held accountable. Human rights are a very important priority for me. I can say it is the most important one today. And my main principle is that a fair decision should be made in each case.

And what measures will be taken against those who violated the law?

Certain people are spreading false information we have been detaining innocent citizens. But we must not forget there are terrorists and criminals among the detainees. Judge for yourself, thousands of people came out to sack the city, committed terrorist attacks, and then suddenly they all turned out to be ordinary civilians. Is it possible to believe that?

Terrorists and bandits should not be called folk heroes and batyrs. This is completely false information, not true. And if we mistakenly agree with such statements, then our state faces another great danger. This means we will once again open the way for criminals and bandits. Therefore, one should not rush to conclusions. Each case must be thoroughly investigated.

Some Russian experts after the January events suggested that “the rebels set out to capture President Tokayev or expel him from the country.” Is this true? But you did not let their plans come true. What can you say about this?

Probably, this is the vision of the Russian special services. Perhaps this is true, because they are closely monitoring the situation in our country. Be that as it may, pre-trained armed gangs wanted to seize power. Therefore, there is some truth in the statements of foreign experts.

We must carefully study everything and give a balanced assessment. As they say, “sabyr tubi - sary altyn” ("patience is gold"). In this matter, one must not rush, one must approach it carefully and thoughtfully. You cannot make decisions on a hot head. We must certainly find the truth, and I set myself this goal.

You called Vladimir Putin and asked for the CSTO peacekeeping forces to be sent to Kazakhstan. Doesn’t this mean the independence of our country will now depend on Russia? Could it have been done without their participation? Do you regret your decision now?

No, this is not a decision to regret. On the contrary, I think this decision was absolutely correct. It must be understood that armed militants ransacked Almaty and threatened our other cities. And if the peacekeeping contingent had not been brought in in a timely manner, the terrorists would have captured other cities as well. Armed clashes took place in Taldykorgan, Taraz, Shymkent, and Kyzylorda. In the capital, the preparation of terrorists was noticed, who were even preparing to attack the Akorda [presidential residence in the capital].

Some well-known experts express the opinion the terrorists' plans included the capture of the two largest cities in Kazakhstan. This plan is similar to the scenario used in Syria, where the terrorists also tried to capture Damascus and Raqqa.

The CSTO peacekeeping contingent, being in our country, did not fire a single shot in our country. We need to talk about this directly and openly. Its mission was only to protect the main strategic objects. And at that moment, the power structures of Kazakhstan entered into action and rebuffed the armed terrorists. Close communication and coordination was established between the CSTO forces and the Kazakh law enforcement agencies.

I think the statements that allegedly “we now owe Putin” are empty talk that must be stopped.

First, the CSTO contingent is not the personal army of Vladimir Putin or Russia. The peacekeeping contingent is common to all member countries of the Organization. Along with the Russian forces, the CSTO forces include military units of Belarus, Armenia, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan. Kazakhstan is also a full member and one of the main founders of this Organization. Therefore, everything is legal and logical.

As for Russia, this power also defended its geopolitical interests. Russia is extremely interested in the stability of Kazakhstan, and we must understand this correctly. Kazakhstan and Russia are strategic partners between which there should be sincere friendship and mutual trust. Any other policy could damage the strategic interests of both countries. This does not mean that we owe someone. Kazakhstan is a sovereign state, we conduct an independent policy.

Still, some journalists from a neighboring country write that Russia saved Kazakhstan.

I have just said Russia is a close partner and neighbor for us. But this is not about salvation, but about actions aimed at protecting our common interests. This is first. Secondly, this issue should be approached from the point of view of the geopolitical situation. The CSTO is our common structure. Russia and other CSTO member states extended a helping hand not only to protect Kazakhstan, but also to ensure their own security.

In general, what should be the relations between Kazakhstan and Russia? There is talk that Moscow “looks at our lands and is ready to take over the northern regions”...

Regarding the first question. Kazakhstan and Russia signed an agreement on good-neighborliness and alliance. Russia is a neighbor given to us by God, with whom we have been living side by side for centuries. This is prescribed to the Kazakhs by fate, and we cannot change it. On the contrary, we must continue to strengthen political, trade, economic and cultural ties. This, first of all, meets the strategic interests of Kazakhstan.

On the second question. Indeed, some Russian politicians called our northern regions their lands. Let me be clear. These are unreasonable and inappropriate statements. Of course, the official authorities, the Kremlin, do not support such a position.

There have never been territorial disputes between the leadership of the two states. Vladimir Putin personally assured me that the territorial issue would never be raised. Therefore, there is no cause for concern.

Thus, our boundaries are fully defined and fixed. This has been recognized by the whole world. There have never been any disagreements in relations between the two countries. The President of Russia has demonstrated a firm commitment to these principles.

Let’s return to our main topic, “tragic January”. In those days, many of our citizens expressed their dissatisfaction and even angry assessments of the First President and his family. The reasons for this are known. What lesson did you, as Head of State, learn from this situation?

If we approach the problem in a complex way, then acute social problems lie at the heart of mass protests. Most of the population has a low standard of living. We must acknowledge this fact. At the same time, the lion’s share of the wealth of the state is concentrated in the hands of a narrow group of people. Inequality is growing. This gives rise to protests. I spoke about this in Parliament and in my other speeches.

Unfortunately, we have witnessed that terrorists and criminals took advantage of citizens’ discontent. Indeed, various opinions about our First President are expressed on social networks. As they say, how many people, so many opinions.

As the Head of State, I am convinced the contribution and efforts of Nursultan Abishevich Nazarbayev over all these 30 years should not be forgotten. That would be disrespectful to history. Nursultan Nazarbayev laid the foundations of our statehood and made a great contribution to strengthening the country. We are obliged to give an objective assessment of its activities. If the First President has shortcomings, then they need to be taken as an admonition to young leaders.

Undoubtedly, the January events became a great lesson both for our country and for me personally. It can be said that appropriate conclusions have been drawn. This has resulted in the political decisions now being made in our country. There is a lot of work ahead. I think everyone sees and understands this.

There have been a lot of personnel changes lately. But in Almaty, those dissatisfied with your decision to appoint Yerbolat Dossayev as akim (mayor) came out for a rally. Do you plan to reconsider this appointment?

Almaty is the country’s largest metropolis, a special city. The situation in the city, the welfare of its people have always been under my personal control. During the January events, the city’s economy suffered great damage. The property of citizens and entrepreneurs was looted. Many buildings were destroyed and burned. Now all this needs to be restored. Of course, this is not an easy task. The new akim, Yerbolat Dossayev, was entrusted to solve it. I believe he will be able to do this, because he has extensive experience in business and public service. He is a smart and hardworking person. We must give him the opportunity to work.

You have also made a number of other personnel changes. Yet most of the akims (governors and mayors) are still in place. What will be the solution in respect to them? Are elections of akims expected in the near future?

Personnel changes are a natural and continuous process. No position is given forever. People who do not meet the new requirements will have to vacate their seats. Their places will be taken by new personnel. I do not set a goal to replace all akims. A comprehensive analysis of their work will be carried out. The main requirement is to improve the well-being of citizens. Therefore, if necessary, I will make appropriate personnel decisions. Of course, there will be changes.

In my address to the people of Kazakhstan in 2020, I first announced the election of rural akims. Soon these elections were held. In last year's address, I announced the next step would be the election of akims of districts. We will hold them in 2024. Perhaps, as a pilot project, we will be able to start this work as early as next year.

We are talking about the building of a New Kazakhstan. However, officials who have worked under the old system for a long time are being reappointed to high posts. It is not surprising that citizens are wondering how can we build a New Kazakhstan with the old cadres?

Personnel policy is a very complex, important and very sensitive issue. A lot depends on good staff. On my initiative, the Presidential Youth Personnel Reserve was created. Citizens who are part of the personnel reserve are appointed to responsible positions. Of course, this cannot be limited to them only. We need to open the way for other people.

The requirements for civil servants must be very high. Not every person can immediately become a minister or akim. It is clear time is needed, experience is needed. Educated, qualified, conscientious citizens should be appointed to such posts. It would be wrong to fire all the former specialists. We don’t need a “political purge”. New people are gradually entering the sphere of public administration. This is a natural process, and it is already underway. But, we should always remember that the public service is not a platform for experiments. Therefore, this work will be carried out gradually.

In your previous interview, you expressed the opinion that we have a shortage of personnel in our country. In fact, many qualified specialists have gone abroad. Some went to study, some went in search of work. Do you have any plans to invite compatriots living abroad to Kazakhstan? How realistic is it to bring this idea to life?

Yes, many qualified specialists are now abroad. Nobody can be blamed for this. Now is the era of globalization. A person has the right to work where he is needed. Nobody prevents it.

We have previously invited citizens who have achieved success in their field. There are compatriots who have returned to the country. It must be said frankly, the country needs people with good education and experience. In general, it is necessary to increase the level of human capital.

We must propagate the ideology of diligence and knowledge. If we are recognized in the world as a hardworking, conscientious nation, this will have a positive impact on our economy. It is necessary to keep as far as possible from dependence and laziness. This is the only way we can build a New Kazakhstan.

I think we had made a big ideological mistake in the past. We laughed at the workers who left to work abroad, including from Central Asia to Russia. We boasted that not a single Kazakh worked abroad, while others were forced to do menial work.

Any work should be appreciated, right? Today, workers from Central Asia work in Russia and earn their living. And our citizens do not withstand labor competition. Unfortunately, this is one of the consequences of the “resource curse”, i.e., dependence on a resource-based economy.

In this regard, I would like to draw your attention to another important topic. You stated that “the state had lost the information war.” Many are dissatisfied with the level of journalism in our country. Tight control over the media by the state is cited as one of the reasons for this. If we are building a democratic society, shouldn’t the media actually become the fourth estate?

It would be wrong to say the level of journalism in Kazakhstan is low. On the contrary, we see its level and potential. During the January events there was an information vacuum. Professionally trained terrorists used this moment to their advantage.

We were forced to turn off the internet. This is normal world practice. But we also had other sources of information. The militants burned down and destroyed the buildings of some television and radio channels. But the rest of the media did not interrupt their broadcasts. There were no restrictions.

As for the freedom of the press, we do not have censorship by law. We provide maximum freedom of information. But freedom is not about saying whatever you want. In any democratic country, a person who spreads misinformation will be held accountable.

I believe every journalist should be, first of all, a statesman. In this regard, I would like to recall the winged words of Nekrasov: “You may not be a poet, but you must be a citizen.” Each of us must be a patriot of our country.

Kazakh wisdom says: “Aitylgan soz - atylgan ok” (“The spoken word is a shot arrow”). Unfortunately, some journalists spread false information and work against the interests of the country. Recently, many bloggers have appeared who take a destructive position. Nevertheless, I believe our citizens can distinguish truth from lies.

Information wars are taking place all over the world. These are the current realities. We must also adapt to this.

You had said that this autumn you would announce political reforms. Have your plans changed? Should we expect drastic changes?

It is too early to say what changes will take place. However, there will be some changes. I have already spoken about this in my speech at the session of the Majilis. I had initially planned to announce new political reforms in the fall. It has now been decided that I will propose political reforms in my state-of-the-nation address in mid-March.

I know now our citizens are eagerly awaiting for the reforms. That is why I had called for building a New Kazakhstan together. Many of the issues that I spoke about found the support of the majority of the people.

After any difficulties, great opportunities open up. The word “crisis” in Chinese means “new opportunities”. Therefore, we should put all our efforts together for the benefit of the prosperity of our motherland.

Of course, we will maintain dialogue with civil society and independent experts. After all, the opinion of the people is very important. I proclaimed the principle “not a person for the state, but the state for the person.” In this regard, the Government was instructed to prepare relevant proposals.

You have spoken about oligopoly more than once. It is difficult to say that everyone fully understood what was at stake. What is the meaning of this word?

Oligopoly is the dominance of a narrow circle of people in the economic sphere. We have this trend gaining momentum. Many, especially entrepreneurs, are well aware of this. This hinders real competition, more broadly speaking, fairness.

If we do not solve this problem, our economy will not develop, and the domestic political situation will only worsen. Therefore, my main goal is to get rid of monopolies as much as possible, whether in economics or politics. We must get rid of them completely. Of course, this is not an easy job, but we must certainly get down to it. There is simply no other way.

What, in your opinion, is the most important problem facing our society today?

The most important issue for our society is the rule of law. Unfortunately, there are many citizens who do not want to comply with the laws. Legal nihilism is on the rise.

Our ancestors have long comprehended the truth “tartipsiz el bolmaidy” (“there will be no country without order”). My position is this: harmony and peace are possible only when law and order reign in society. Law is the main criterion for the civilization of any society. Only when the law prevails is a just society formed. And we must definitely achieve this. This is my main principle.

As far as the law is concerned, at the meeting of the government you instructed to return funds illegally taken abroad to the motherland. When will your order be executed and illegal funds will return to Kazakhstan? What is the time frame for this assignment?

The government has received a relevant order. In two months the government will submit its specific proposals to me. Then work will begin. A large-scale examination is to be carried out, after which we will begin negotiations with the relevant foreign institutions. Apparently, this will be a complex and lengthy process. This should be said directly. But we must begin this work in order to achieve justice. It is necessary to return funds illegally exported abroad to their homeland.

You had said that you can only hold the post of President for two terms. Does this mean you will participate in the next elections?

This provision is written into our Constitution. This is an obvious thing that cannot be changed. Two terms. Perhaps, in my March address, I will express my proposals on this important issue. But now it would be premature to declare my participation or non-participation in the elections.

In your opinion, what future awaits Kazakhstan? Many of us, after the January events, asked ourselves: “Will we be able to maintain our sovereignty?”

Our people have gone through a lot, gone through serious trials, overcame all difficulties. During the tragic events, the people showed their unity. We must pass this value on to the next generations. The future of Kazakhstan will certainly be bright. I sincerely believe in it.

We have only one motherland. There is no other and never will be. The independence of the country is above all. This is an axiom, a truth. Protecting it like the apple of an eye is our common duty.

What is a sovereign country? This is a single people involved in world processes. This is a country that has proved its independence not with words, not with slogans, but with real deeds.

No one should have any doubts about whether we will retain sovereignty. On the contrary, each of us should ask ourselves: “How will we strengthen our Independence?”

As for our language, we will keep it. It cannot be otherwise, because in the most difficult moments of history, the language was preserved thanks to our wise ancestors, thanks to our people.

At the same time, we need to carry out a language reform. And here it is not a matter of a speedy transition to the Latin script. This issue should be approached with all seriousness. A thorough examination is required. We should not rush into issues such as language policy, because this is a very sensitive topic.

What good qualities, in your opinion, should be acquired by our citizens?

I have just spoken about it. However, this is a very important question, so I will repeat. We need to establish in society the idea of ​​industriousness, respect for work. Frankly, this is the most pressing issue right now.

We should put up front the opportunity for our citizens to secure a decent life through honest work. Whether we become a prosperous country depends not only on authorities. It depends on every citizen.

Not words, but deeds will help improve life in the country. I especially want to convey this idea to young people. Despite the known negative factors, we have many opportunities to work efficiently and profitably.

It is unlikely that anyone can characterize the essence of good and evil better than the great Abai. “Reason and kindness, perseverance, modesty and work” - these principles are necessary for us today as air.

…

Kassym-Jomart Kemelevich, one production center is going to make a film based on your book “A Word about a Father”. What do you think about it?

I did read they were going to make a movie based on my book. I have not given such instructions to anyone, and I am not going to do this. Frankly, I do not welcome this kind of thing. But, of course, I will never refute my book “A Word about the Father”. I think this is a meaningful work, useful for young people. This book is my duty to my parents.

One more question concerning your creative work. You have written many books, mostly about diplomacy and foreign policy. Among them is the book “He Makes History”, dedicated to the personality of Elbasy (the First President). In today's realities, do you regret writing this book? Do you have any plans for new books?

As for the book about the activities of the First President, as the Kazakhs say, “ötken іske okіnbe” (“do not regret the past”). I witnessed many events, so I decided to tell about them. Readers appreciate my books. This is not my personal opinion. For example, students still get the information they need from these books.

If we talk about plans, then I keep a diary in which I write down some of my thoughts. Perhaps it will come in handy. In the future I plan to write a big book about our present life.

You have recently signed amendments to the law “On the First President”. In accordance with the norms of this law, a number of Elbasy's powers were terminated, including lifelong chairmanship of the Security Council and the Assembly of the People of Kazakhstan. In general, what is your opinion on this issue?

It is obvious. Previously, such laws were adopted, but now they are no longer needed. This must be spoken about directly. I believe such laws should not be adopted in the future.

There have been shortcomings in the past, but this is our history. It is the duty of each of us to learn from history. Our goal is to think about the future of our country, to take care of the younger generation.

Interviewed by Zhaina Slambek.