ZHUSAN HUMANITARIAN OPERATION Kazakhstan’s repatriation of foreign fighters and their families
On January 8th, 2021, the Atlantic Council in partnership with the Embassy of the Republic of Kazakhstan to the United States and the U.S. State Department hosted an online event on the topic of Kazakhstan’s repatriation of foreign fighters and their families.
Main speakers for the event: Yerzhan Ashykbayev, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Kazakhstan, Christopher Harnisch, Deputy Coordinator for countering violent extremism at the Bureau of Counterterrorism with the U.S. Department of State, Noah Tucker, Nonresident Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Eurasia Center, Ambassador John Herbst, Director of the Eurasia Center, and Dr. Stevan Weine, Professor of Psychiatry at the College of Medicine with University of Illinois at Chicago
Jasmine El-Gamal, Former Middle East Adviser at the U.S. Department of Defense, moderated the event, and William Wechsler, Director of the Atlantic Council’s Rafik Hariri Center & Middle East Programs, provided the welcoming remarks.
Nearly 1200 participants from different parts of the world have followed the event, including legislative staffers, policy makers, diplomatic staff, journalists, and other experts in the US and Europe, as well as other private citizens.
The link to the recording is available at: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/event/kazakh-repatriation-of-foreign-fighters/
Excerpts from the discussion
- YERZHAN ASHYKBAYEV covered the procedures and hard political decisions that the Government of Kazakhstan had to make in order to commit to the repatriation, rehabilitation and reintegration program.
The ultimate decision was made at the highest political level, it was first sanctioned by the First President Mr. Nursultan Nazarbayev, later phases of the repatriation operation were authorized by the current President Mr. Kassym-Jomart Tokayev.
There several arguments in favor of the operation:
First, Kazakhstan is attentive to its international obligations. We take the quite seriously.
Kazakhstan has served at the U.N. Security Council. One of the specific U.N. Security Council resolutions on the return of the FTFs and their families was adopted during our term.
Second, the repatriation program was almost entirely humanitarian in nature. Overall, we repatriated over 700 nationals of whom 33 men – all of them are terrorist fighters, and all of them are prosecuted – 187 women and 490 children.
Given the number of children and women we consider this as the humanitarian operation. Most of these children are the foreign nationals stranded in an alien country without an access to basic needs, such as food, shelter, clean water, health and education. They were exposed to different types of threats – the violation of their rights, sexual abuse, exploitation and potential recruitment.
I have been foreseeing this operation since early beginning. We have been approached by a number of groups of relatives, mothers and even FTFs themselves who were sending messages to the Government Agencies and their relatives with the plead to repatriate them. Most of them were disillusioned with the ISIS radical ideology.
President Mr.Tokayev introduced the concept of the “Listening State” which is to be responsive to the calls from the public not only during election campaigns which is so often the case, but continuously. That was also a major factor.
Finally, I should also mention the identity issue, the nation building issue. Kazakhstan is among a very few countries in the world which facilitates the repatriation programs. For the past 25 years we have repatriated over a million of ethnic Kazakhs from different countries like China, Russia, Mongolia, Central Asian nations, Iran and etc.
When we talk about 500 or 600 women and children, we felt that it was our moral obligation to bring them back to their country, so they have a chance for a bright future.
We cannot say that we had a 100% support from the public. But given the history of Kazakhstan, given those repatriation programs we run as the Government, given so many calls from the public, from the relatives – out of 700 people repatriated there were over 500 children and minors – we are talking entirely about these children and the message was well received by the society.
There are still issues, not everyone happy that the Government pays a particular attention to these groups. But overall support for the repatriation issue was quite remarkable.
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…The reasons for their intention (the FTFs and their families) to join the ranks of ISIS and the Chaliphate was almost the same as of any countries’. There are over 80 countries whose citizens traveled to Syria and Iraq. They were not finding enough attention into their needs. Most impact was from pro-Islamic radical propaganda.
There are many issues on the agenda of the Government. Even though it is a national repatriation program, I should reiterate that it has a spillover impact of regional and international importance.
Kazakhstan is a peaceful society and we did not have an experience of dealing with the traumatic cases, children who were a part of insurgency or military operations. Capacity building training and exercises were of great importance for us.
Government would like to see the repatriated individuals as the normal citizens, we do not want to treat them as heroes, as victims, but rather we want to see them as normal members of our society.
In order to achieve that we have to address a set of issues: medical, educational gaps, psychiatric assistance, social help, employment, all these things that distinguished analysts have mentioned.
Sometimes these programs are security driven because you can hardly know what is going on in one’s mind. It is an ongoing long-term fight for hearts and minds of these people.
During one of the repatriation programs a woman brought some propaganda materials hidden in the toys of her daughter. You never know what can happen.
Personally, I think there will be failures. There will be some percentage of those returning to radical ideology. We have to be realistic. But overall, according to our data most of women are renouncing the radical ideology. Some of them are embracing a completely different type of behavior in the society.
For the children – we have to work not only with them and the families, but we have to work with communities. This is an extremely difficult task and multitask.
Keep engaging with these groups: children and women. Try to engage them in different types of activities and social programs. Do not let them slip back to those conditions that were previously conducive to their radicalizations. It is our major task.
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…We are the nation of 19 million people. Of course, 700 returnees may seem a small number, but we are talking about a community wide policies. To avoid stigmatization and emulation of these groups we need to treat them as equal in rights and in responsibilities.
It may seem as small funding is needed to address that concern, but we cannot single them out. All the social issues, unemployment, unfortunately, during the COVID pandemic are the universal issues. Not only they are suffering, but other groups of the society are also suffering.
We cannot provide an exact figure of how much is needed to deradicalize and resocialize one single person.
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…Kazakhstan is working with different agencies such as UNICEF, ICRC, OSCE and NGOs on the ground. Any country that has a political will can surely find the way to bring their women and children back home.
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- CHRISTOPHER HARNISCH: There were mentioned the moral and humanitarian imperatives for the decision of Kazakhstan to repatriate its citizens.
Let me also mention the security imperative for repatriation. There are right now over 2,000 foreign terrorist fighters (Europe, Asia and Middle East) in Kurdish prisons in Northeast Syria, not including the ISIS fighters from Syria and Iraq. Almost 13,000 women and children are in the Kurdish camps.
The concern from a security perspective is that the vast majority of these people are not going to die in these prisons or camps, they are going to be free at some point either by escaping or freed by the ISIS fighters.
ISIS has been calling for the liberation of the prisoners in the camps for some time now. When these people are freed, they will return back to the battlefield in Syria, Afghanistan or a third country… or they can return undetected back to their home countries.
In order to secure the defeat of ISIS it is imperative that the countries repatriate now, when they have an opportunity of a positive custody over these individuals and are able to monitor them as opposed to those people returning back to the battlefield or slipping in through the back door undetected to their home countries.
Regarding the degree of cooperation between the United States and Kazakhstan… We have been calling the countries to repatriate FTFs and ISIS affiliated family members for about three years now. And Kazakhstan was really the first country to step up to the plate. Exactly two years ago when Kazakhstan initiated its first repatriation, they did not just dip the toe in the water. They said they were going to bring back effectively as many Kazakhstanis as they could.
I think it was around a hundred or so at that moment to repatriate. And that was just unprecedented. We haven’t seen any country to do that.
First of all, we were very grateful for their leadership, and, secondly, we wanted this effort to be successful. We have had conversations with our counterparts in the Kazakhstan Government and discussed how we could potentially collaborate to help build the capacity of Kazakhstan. To make sure that the individuals that are brought back to Kazakhstan are successfully prosecuted, incarcerated, monitored, and those that are not prosecuted, they are effectively rehabilitated and reintegrated.
When Kazakhstan mentioned that it would like to receive some assistance with reintegration and rehabilitation front, we contacted our network of experts who have worked on these issues for some time in the conflict zones. One of those individuals is on the panel today – Dr. Stevan Weine. He is a real legend in this field with a tremendous experience on this issue.
Partnership and dialogue began and it has been an enduring one for the past two years and I am pleased that we were able to announce the award for Dr. Weine to continue his work in Kazakhstan for at least another two years.
Kazakhstan is not the only country that we are doing this type of work with. Really any country that is willing to repatriate, rehabilitate, reintegrate and prosecute the FTFs, we try to help out in any way we can.
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…This can work anywhere. It is a matter of a political will, Kazakhstan had the political will to do what is right two years ago and they continue to do what is right. Other countries have as well. Kazakhstan was out front, but there are also 10-15 countries, including the U.S., that have repatriated their citizens.
Unfortunately, we see too many countries, especially in the Western Europe, that just say: “the risk is too high, electorates won’t be supportive of this, we might not be afraid of what is going to happen when people return, but what happens in one or two years down the road.
Well, right now we have an evidence – the Kazakhstani example. You can do this, you can mitigate the risk. There are no bombs going off in Astana or Nur-Sultan. They were able to manage the risk. By the way, it is not a small sample size that Kazakhstan has brought back – it is 600 or so.
If frankly Kazakhstan can do this, the countries with greater means, especially in the Western Europe, they should definitely be able to do this.
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…Russia is attempting to undermine our democracy in the United States, and to promote disinformation and misinformation regarding terrorism. However, there is one issue that we see relatively eye to eye with Russia – on the issue of repatriation. I got to give a credit to Russia that have called on countries to repatriate and they are taking initial steps themselves.
I hope sincerely that Russia continues to repatriate its citizens and does so in a humane manner. It is critical that they must do it in a humane manner.
Regarding other countries and some of the challenges that they face. I am not going to mention any specific countries. There are two or three of the Western European countries in the past month that have started repatriating women and children. Those countries a year or two ago had the same list of challenges that were mentioned previously regarding consular services, logistical support on the ground. They were able to get it done.
It can work through the United States. All these Western European countries know that the United States has the presence on the ground. We have offered good services and in some cases the support of our military. They helped out on the repatriation efforts.
Finally, how can we prevent people from re-engaging. I think it would be intellectually disingenuous for us to say that there is a full prove way to prevent people from reengaging. The fact is when you repatriate the people who were radicalized you assume risk. Countries will assume risk.
We need to weight what the risk of repatriation versus the risk of keeping these people in Northeast Syria in the camps where they continue to get radicalized by their mothers many of whom are still loyal to ISIS. Where they do not have access to the education system and social services. I would say that the risk of keeping these people in the camps is a lot greater in a long-term than the risk of bringing people back right now.
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- NOAH TUCKER: This is a remarkably good news story. Not only it was an incredible humanitarian operation carried out, in spite of a lot of doubt, it has been extremely successful up to this point.
I just want to echo the statements of others – this really can serve as a model for other countries. I speak not as a diplomat, but as a researcher who has frequently across my career been extremely critical of the CVE policies in Central Asia and even in Kazakhstan in the past. But this is a remarkable success, this is a good policy that deserves emulation from its neighbors and other countries in the world.
On a personal note, as part of my research I have met with many of these families before their grandchildren and children were returned. I sat in their homes with them and listened to their stories and cried with them.
It is unusually in the midst of the pandemic and so many other things to have an unmixed good news story. This is one of them. Some of the families I sat with had their loved ones returned to them. They are living in safety now.
It is a remarkable thing, and it took a lot of courage. It shows that it is possible. I want to echo the assessment as well – there has not been an increase in extremist activity, there has not been an increase in the threat level because of this.
Particularly, the humanitarian nature of it and the willingness to recognize the returnees as people and as full citizens of the country has gone a long way toward preventing future violent extremism. Many of these people have been featured in media reporting and documentaries, and were allowed to tell their stories about what they saw in Syria and what happened there.
Many of them are truly horrific. For them to be able to come back and be welcomed back in their country is probably the biggest PVE victory that we have seen in Central Asia through this entire conflict.
Challenges that stand in front of us – Where do we go from here? How do we build on it? How do we continue to ensure not only that those who have returned can be fully reintegrated and rehabilitated, but that we also can prevent this from happening again. That is a longer term form of this.
One of the lessons looking at Central Asia and Europe are that there are community level issues that have to be addressed. We see one of the characteristics of the Syrian mobilization from Central Asia. It was not a random one. It was not just as people came sort of from all over the place and each of the Central Asian countries, and as in many European countries. We see concentrated in what we call “hot spots”.
As we move forward continuing the success it will be important to begin to address some of these community level issues in order to both enhance the probability of success for reintegration and ensure that these problems that helped facilitate some of this happening in the first place can be addressed for the longer term.
This is not a challenge that is unique to Kazakhstan, we see it across the region and in Europe as well. The most important that we see that it can be successful, and we can move on in the long term thinking.
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- STEVAN WEINE: Operation Zhusan is a remarkable operation that tried to do that no other country has done. It is a humanitarian operation. It is a bit like a refugee resettlement in some ways.
It is also different because of the security issue. We have mothers and children. Some of those mothers were brought along unwilling to Syria, some were enthusiastic and signed on to the project and were very invested in the ideology.
We have children who people would think of as victims, and yet some of those children were involved in the ideological trainings. Some carried out operations or were trained to. We do not know what kind of agreements were made between parents and children before this. There is a real reason for concern.
There is also a strong basis for hope that Kazakhstan has made a right choice because society lives with lots of risks of criminal offenders. These children and mothers are not criminal offenders, they have committed no crimes. They are out in the civil society.
What we know from prior work in many other countries around people were involved in crime, child trafficking or sexual exploitation, refugees of wars… is that people can come back, people can go on to live relatively normal peaceful lives in civil society.
What we need to do in projects like Zhusan and other Rehabilitation and Reintegration Programs is draw the best knowledge and best practices that we have learned from those programs.
Some of the lessons learned is that the commitment is long-term. Especially, when we talk about children. I sat with pre-school and great school children and drew pictures with them.
When do we possibly have to be worried about them as the risk of criminality being involved. It is not until they are adolescent or young adults. Maybe, the mothers we might be more concerned about in the short-term.
What we have learned from other work and I am also thinking of the demobilized child soldiers is that it takes focusing on multiple levels to mitigate against these risks. I am talking about:
- Promoting individual mental health and well-being;
- Promoting family support;
- Promoting educational success;
- Promoting community support;
- Reintegrating them to community, so they are not stigmatized or bullied;
- Improving structural conditions like housing, jobs etc.;
- Promoting public safety.
It is working on all these levels. Programs like in Kazakhstan is that what needs to be done. It is not simply an issue of deradicalizing or separating people from ideology.
For children this means school placement, individualized educational programs because many of these children were out of school for many years. It means addressing neurodevelopmental problems because many of these children have had malnutrition, chronic illnesses, trauma which have affected their brain development honestly.
My colleague Teresa Betancourt in Sierra Leon has filed over 500 demobilized child soldiers for over seventeen years now. The single best predictor for these children to reintegrating into live was to attending the school. The thing that interfered most with success in school was children’s post traumatic stress disorder and trauma related problems.
We need to provide trauma informed care to these children and to their mothers. And we need to equip teachers and parents how to help children manage those kinds of things. So that they can stay at school, be successful and graduate. That is their best pathway into normal society.
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We know from our work with refugees that it is harder for adolescent refugees to come into a society. Their adolescence has a tough time anyway. They are not just big kids, and not yet adults. That transition and coming to a new society can be challenging.
Kazakhstan and many other countries have a great deal of expertise in helping young people manage simultaneously – getting into school, adjusting to a new culture, managing trauma related problems and staying out of trouble.
One of the interesting things I heard from parents and teachers in Kazakhstan that they were most worried about the kids who were between 10 and 14. They were old enough to have been actively involved in training and operations. Yet, they are not old enough of age of consent when they could be prosecuted like some older ones. What do you do with them?
Interestingly enough, those kids have a kind of critical perspective. I sat with those kids and heard them saying that they just wanted to play soccer and be with their friends, hang out with the grandparents. The thing they were trying to do in the Chaliphate was a lie and it did not work.
Our hope is that through socialization with peers and support of the theologians and faith leaders that can teach them what the proper religion is, they can move away from extremism and live normal lives.
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…There are many willing partners with a lot of expertise U.N. Agencies, UNICEF, UNOCT and many countries. The key issue is the coordination and avoiding redundancy. The leadership of the Government of Kazakhstan is helping with that.
Like a lot of humanitarian emergencies things can get crazy. It is important that the Government of Kazakhstan which has been the leader in this base keeps things aligned to the best support of these young people. It is very important to build a community of practitioners locally in Kazakhstan, regionally and internationally.
So, other people can learn from this experience, and be able to help bring in and support those children and mothers as well.
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AMBASSADOR JOHN HERBST: Moscow sees itself as the security hegemon in Central Asia. And their understanding is that China lets Moscow take the lead in the region on security issues. They like to hype the issue of Islamic extremism as a way to enhance their own influence in Central Asia.
I am a little bit skeptical about Moscow’s motivation. I think the Islamic extremism is a problem in Central Asia that we should help deal with.
The homegrown Islam in Central Asia associated with the Hannafi School has always been moderate for many centuries. In fact, Central Asia was a center of Islamic praying in the ninth and tenth centuries.
The Salafi form of Islam comes from the Hanbali School that was never native in Central Asia. It was an import. Nasty import. Exported by the same folks that are exporting this form of Islam elsewhere globally.
In the past we have helped the countries of Central Asia deal with this and we should continue, but it is not the only and not even the principal concern that the United States should have regarding the region.
It is very important that the stability of Central Asia which is a great achievement of its nations, especially, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan, as the largest countries in the area. It is something that is very much in our interest.
They are surrounded by great powers which have imperial designs. And we should be working with all these states to help ensure their independence, security and stability and economic development.
This program (R&R) is enlightened and very smart. It reads all of our interests in terms of Islamic activism in Central Asia.